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	<title>Comments on: Courtship Challenge #1: Identification</title>
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	<description>making courtship work in the real world</description>
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		<title>By: Vaughn Ohlman</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Vaughn Ohlman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interested in your answer here. I have written a couple of books on this subject and am looking for reviewers, if you are interested (or anybody else, for that matter)&lt;br&gt;Reply to Von@vonsbooks.com or on facebook, as you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interested in your answer here. I have written a couple of books on this subject and am looking for reviewers, if you are interested (or anybody else, for that matter)<br />Reply to <a href="mailto:Von@vonsbooks.com">Von@vonsbooks.com</a> or on facebook, as you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin Coates</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin Coates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-176</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...I believe that if families showed more hospitality to each other, this problem could be solved very easily.  If the parents of a girl, saw a young man in the congregation or homeschool assembly who seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders, then why not invite he and his family for dinner?  Have them over and really get to know eachother.   This is a safety net because most likely the young man will be himself, hard to fake it when your whole family is listening and might say something if you lie.  Why do we always encourage meeting members of the opposite sex outside of a family environment?   I think a return to the Biblical model is the best way but we have become so Noth Americanized into believing that romance leads to marriage instead of godly influence.  My question is, should you marry because you love someone or should you love someone because you have married them?  In other words, is romantic love a pre-requisite for marriage according to the Word of God?  :)  Food for thought...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;I believe that if families showed more hospitality to each other, this problem could be solved very easily.  If the parents of a girl, saw a young man in the congregation or homeschool assembly who seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders, then why not invite he and his family for dinner?  Have them over and really get to know eachother.   This is a safety net because most likely the young man will be himself, hard to fake it when your whole family is listening and might say something if you lie.  Why do we always encourage meeting members of the opposite sex outside of a family environment?   I think a return to the Biblical model is the best way but we have become so Noth Americanized into believing that romance leads to marriage instead of godly influence.  My question is, should you marry because you love someone or should you love someone because you have married them?  In other words, is romantic love a pre-requisite for marriage according to the Word of God?  <img src='http://www.practicalcourtship.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Food for thought&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Vaughn Ohlman</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Vaughn Ohlman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-171</guid>
		<description>Of course, your solution relies on the (unScriptural) assumption that &#039;dating&#039; relationships are, indeed, not sinful.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I posted above, God&#039;s Word gives clear direction in this area, and we are ignoring it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, your solution relies on the (unScriptural) assumption that &#39;dating&#39; relationships are, indeed, not sinful.</p>
<p>As I posted above, God&#39;s Word gives clear direction in this area, and we are ignoring it.</p>
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		<title>By: Vaughn Ohlman</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Vaughn Ohlman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-170</guid>
		<description>No, Daniel, not at all. The problem is that we have added a great number of things to God&#039;s word that aren&#039;t in there, and subtracted many things that are. Courtship is built on these additions and subtractions, and the result is a disaster for the church. As I write in my book:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are thousands of Godly homeschooled young people of both genders who want to get married, are ready to get married, and should be married… indeed should have been married long ago… who are not married. Their church, their friends, and their families have all prepared them for marriage, for early marriage, for early, fruitful marriage… and they are not married. There is no persecution, no law, no physical infirmities that prevent them from being married… but they are not married. This is not a ‘panic’, it is a crisis. Indeed, we have from among the very best and brightest of our Christian young people, the best taught, from the finest families, who are already well past the flower of their age, and they are not married. That is beyond a crisis, it is a catastrophe.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Scripture provides clear answers to this crisis, clear solutions to this catastrophe: solutions we have ignored because they run counter to everything our culture has taught us. It is time that we began to take every thought captive to Christ, and throw of the chains of bondage to this world. It is time we ‘let them marry’.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Daniel, not at all. The problem is that we have added a great number of things to God&#39;s word that aren&#39;t in there, and subtracted many things that are. Courtship is built on these additions and subtractions, and the result is a disaster for the church. As I write in my book:</p>
<p>There are thousands of Godly homeschooled young people of both genders who want to get married, are ready to get married, and should be married… indeed should have been married long ago… who are not married. Their church, their friends, and their families have all prepared them for marriage, for early marriage, for early, fruitful marriage… and they are not married. There is no persecution, no law, no physical infirmities that prevent them from being married… but they are not married. This is not a ‘panic’, it is a crisis. Indeed, we have from among the very best and brightest of our Christian young people, the best taught, from the finest families, who are already well past the flower of their age, and they are not married. That is beyond a crisis, it is a catastrophe.</p>
<p>Scripture provides clear answers to this crisis, clear solutions to this catastrophe: solutions we have ignored because they run counter to everything our culture has taught us. It is time that we began to take every thought captive to Christ, and throw of the chains of bondage to this world. It is time we ‘let them marry’.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel B</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-167</guid>
		<description>He didn&#039;t say anything about divorcing for incompatibility.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;&lt;&lt; What makes them compatible is their creation and their obedience to their creator... not some vague and unGodly modern standards of &#039;compatibility&#039;.  &gt;&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;So no person is better for anyone than any other person?  As long as two people both are committed to following God, all are equally matches?   
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Just because the Bible doesn&#039;t directly say &quot;Make a list of the most important must-haves and can&#039;t-stands in a spouse&quot;, doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s wrong to do so.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;&lt;&lt; In Ephesians 5 we see that husbands are *commanded* to love their wives... nothing is said about only those &#039;compatible&#039; wives.  &gt;&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Still doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s wrong to try and find one. 
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;&lt;&lt; The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. &gt;&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;That is a VERY necessary step, but it is hardly the whole aim of marriage.  The entire reason and the only reason why anyone should want to be married is so they can fight for their marriage to not fall apart?  What?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He didn&#39;t say anything about divorcing for incompatibility.</p>
<p>&lt;&lt; What makes them compatible is their creation and their obedience to their creator&#8230; not some vague and unGodly modern standards of &#39;compatibility&#39;.  &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>So no person is better for anyone than any other person?  As long as two people both are committed to following God, all are equally matches?   </p>
<p>Just because the Bible doesn&#39;t directly say &#8220;Make a list of the most important must-haves and can&#39;t-stands in a spouse&#8221;, doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s wrong to do so.</p>
<p>&lt;&lt; In Ephesians 5 we see that husbands are *commanded* to love their wives&#8230; nothing is said about only those &#39;compatible&#39; wives.  &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>Still doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s wrong to try and find one. </p>
<p>&lt;&lt; The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>That is a VERY necessary step, but it is hardly the whole aim of marriage.  The entire reason and the only reason why anyone should want to be married is so they can fight for their marriage to not fall apart?  What?</p>
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		<title>By: car transportation</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>car transportation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-166</guid>
		<description>In America the idea of an arranged marriage goes against our core as a people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In America the idea of an arranged marriage goes against our core as a people.</p>
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		<title>By: Von</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Von</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 07:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-155</guid>
		<description>The reason why Christians take such offense to dating is because it is completely unBiblical. It stands in opposition to every principle that God lays out for the relationships between the sexes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You make much of &#039;finding out if you are compatible&#039;, and scripture makes nothing of it. God created man and woman one flesh. What makes them compatible is their creation and their obedience to their creator... not some vague and unGodly modern standards of &#039;compatibility&#039;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And even &#039;uncompatible&#039; couples (ie those who are unequally yoked) are told, in I Cor and I Pet, that their relationship is to be the same... the wives obedient to their husbands, the husbands obedient to God. In Ephesians 5 we see that husbands are *commanded* to love their wives... nothing is said about only those &#039;compatible&#039; wives.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Chesterton said:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If Americans can be divorced for “incompatibility of temper” I cannot conceive why they are not all divorced. I have know many happy marriages, but never a compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are incompatible.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;— G.K. Chesterton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why Christians take such offense to dating is because it is completely unBiblical. It stands in opposition to every principle that God lays out for the relationships between the sexes.</p>
<p>You make much of &#39;finding out if you are compatible&#39;, and scripture makes nothing of it. God created man and woman one flesh. What makes them compatible is their creation and their obedience to their creator&#8230; not some vague and unGodly modern standards of &#39;compatibility&#39;.</p>
<p>And even &#39;uncompatible&#39; couples (ie those who are unequally yoked) are told, in I Cor and I Pet, that their relationship is to be the same&#8230; the wives obedient to their husbands, the husbands obedient to God. In Ephesians 5 we see that husbands are *commanded* to love their wives&#8230; nothing is said about only those &#39;compatible&#39; wives.</p>
<p>Chesterton said:</p>
<p>If Americans can be divorced for “incompatibility of temper” I cannot conceive why they are not all divorced. I have know many happy marriages, but never a compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are incompatible.”</p>
<p>— G.K. Chesterton</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel B</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-126</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think dancing works great these days.  If the single people sit around and watch the couples dance no wonder they aren&#039;t finding anyone.  You&#039;ll be seen before you get talked to - so mannerisms mean everything.  Get up and look like you want to dance and be danced with!  Or go and (gasp, groan) ASK someone to dance - especially if you&#039;re a guy, but yes, girls, you can do this too.  It&#039;s not like you&#039;re proposing to the guy, it&#039;s saying &quot;Hey, dance with me!&quot; - give the guy a reason to dance with you instead of any of the other 50 girls in the room that he might be considering ... stand out.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, for guys or girls, if you go a dance and stand around in a group of your own gender talking, you make people not want to ask you to dance because it&#039;s more awkward to come up to a group than an individual, and it&#039;s harder to do if you have to interrupt a conversation first, and people might feel bad asking one person (especially if there are only 2 people in the group) and leaving out the others.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;I noticed somewhere on your blog that you basically said love can be a choice....it can be, but the person you marry should be someone you love. Not someone you decide to love.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thomas is right.  Love is a choice.  I&#039;d much rather have my spouse have chosen to love me than claim that she just drifted helplessly on a current that happened to force her emotions to view me differently than other guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think dancing works great these days.  If the single people sit around and watch the couples dance no wonder they aren&#39;t finding anyone.  You&#39;ll be seen before you get talked to &#8211; so mannerisms mean everything.  Get up and look like you want to dance and be danced with!  Or go and (gasp, groan) ASK someone to dance &#8211; especially if you&#39;re a guy, but yes, girls, you can do this too.  It&#39;s not like you&#39;re proposing to the guy, it&#39;s saying &#8220;Hey, dance with me!&#8221; &#8211; give the guy a reason to dance with you instead of any of the other 50 girls in the room that he might be considering &#8230; stand out.  </p>
<p>Also, for guys or girls, if you go a dance and stand around in a group of your own gender talking, you make people not want to ask you to dance because it&#39;s more awkward to come up to a group than an individual, and it&#39;s harder to do if you have to interrupt a conversation first, and people might feel bad asking one person (especially if there are only 2 people in the group) and leaving out the others.</p>
<p>&#8220;I noticed somewhere on your blog that you basically said love can be a choice&#8230;.it can be, but the person you marry should be someone you love. Not someone you decide to love.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thomas is right.  Love is a choice.  I&#39;d much rather have my spouse have chosen to love me than claim that she just drifted helplessly on a current that happened to force her emotions to view me differently than other guys.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Interesting topic. It may be helpful to see how other cultures have done it. Actually, I have some first hand experience with this. Back in my single days, I became involved in a ministry to Cambodian immigrants. Cambodians are a very sociable people, far more so than Americans. It is a very normal thing for Cambodians to spend hours visiting in each other&#039;s homes. During this time I got to know a family of Cambodian Christians. The dad had worked with missionaries in Cambodia as a lay evangelist before the communist take over. This family embraced me as one of their own. I was continually working with them in the ministry or was being invited to their home for dinner. One day I experienced a serious cross-cultural shock. One day the dad came to me and asked me to consider marriage to his daughter! Being an American, my initial thought was &quot;No way!!&quot;. But as I thought about it I began to wonder if their might be something to this. With the parent&#039;s encouragement, I began to get to know their daughter and realized what a wonderful girl she was. My future wife grew to love me as well. (By the way, I am not advocating arranged marriages or even courtship. Just because it worked this way for me doesn&#039;t mean there is a one size fits all legalistic formula for everyone.) God has blessed me with a wonderful wife and four beautiful children. I am very close to my in-laws. Beside this, God has used our marriage to spread the gospel. We are still working as a family to spread gospel to the Cambodian people.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The point of all this is if people want to do a home based courtship, they can&#039;t do it in isolation. In my wife&#039;s culture, the home is the center of courtship. But meeting people is not a problem, because the home is also center of a very active social life. What would happen if families, well before the children reached marriageable age, began inviting other families or singles over for dinner and other activities about once a week? By the time the kids got to a marriageable age, it would be no problem to finding someone. But that takes time and effort to show hospitality and build those relationships.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wonder if another barrier to successful courtship may be the parents themselves. If the parents come across as harsh, judgmental, holier than thou, proud, ect. , it will repel many good young people. Who would want to be a part of that? Reading some of the blogs and websites on courtship, it seems to be a matter of pride on how many young men the father as been able to chase off. It may be necessary to say &quot;No&quot; sometimes, but it shouldn&#039;t be something to gloated over. The interrogation process some are advocating has all the warmth of Spanish Inquisition. I can contrast that with my own experience. My future in-laws built a warm caring relationship with me well before the courtship began. When they approached me about marriage, I was not able to take offense because I knew that they respected and loved me. That care made me consider their advice. The bottom line is that successful courtship is about building sincere caring relationships, not about rules or formulas.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting topic. It may be helpful to see how other cultures have done it. Actually, I have some first hand experience with this. Back in my single days, I became involved in a ministry to Cambodian immigrants. Cambodians are a very sociable people, far more so than Americans. It is a very normal thing for Cambodians to spend hours visiting in each other&#39;s homes. During this time I got to know a family of Cambodian Christians. The dad had worked with missionaries in Cambodia as a lay evangelist before the communist take over. This family embraced me as one of their own. I was continually working with them in the ministry or was being invited to their home for dinner. One day I experienced a serious cross-cultural shock. One day the dad came to me and asked me to consider marriage to his daughter! Being an American, my initial thought was &#8220;No way!!&#8221;. But as I thought about it I began to wonder if their might be something to this. With the parent&#39;s encouragement, I began to get to know their daughter and realized what a wonderful girl she was. My future wife grew to love me as well. (By the way, I am not advocating arranged marriages or even courtship. Just because it worked this way for me doesn&#39;t mean there is a one size fits all legalistic formula for everyone.) God has blessed me with a wonderful wife and four beautiful children. I am very close to my in-laws. Beside this, God has used our marriage to spread the gospel. We are still working as a family to spread gospel to the Cambodian people.</p>
<p>The point of all this is if people want to do a home based courtship, they can&#39;t do it in isolation. In my wife&#39;s culture, the home is the center of courtship. But meeting people is not a problem, because the home is also center of a very active social life. What would happen if families, well before the children reached marriageable age, began inviting other families or singles over for dinner and other activities about once a week? By the time the kids got to a marriageable age, it would be no problem to finding someone. But that takes time and effort to show hospitality and build those relationships.</p>
<p>I wonder if another barrier to successful courtship may be the parents themselves. If the parents come across as harsh, judgmental, holier than thou, proud, ect. , it will repel many good young people. Who would want to be a part of that? Reading some of the blogs and websites on courtship, it seems to be a matter of pride on how many young men the father as been able to chase off. It may be necessary to say &#8220;No&#8221; sometimes, but it shouldn&#39;t be something to gloated over. The interrogation process some are advocating has all the warmth of Spanish Inquisition. I can contrast that with my own experience. My future in-laws built a warm caring relationship with me well before the courtship began. When they approached me about marriage, I was not able to take offense because I knew that they respected and loved me. That care made me consider their advice. The bottom line is that successful courtship is about building sincere caring relationships, not about rules or formulas.  </p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: A Jesus brain-washed person</title>
		<link>http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-challenge-1-identification/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>A Jesus brain-washed person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=165#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I am not a Muslim, nor do i make my drop-dead gorgeous, college senior daughter wear a chastity belt.  She is an adult and will make her own choices, and as the non-brainwashed person put it, she will live with the consequences of her actions.  
  Last night my wife and I had dinner with a young married couple who met on an electronic dating site.  The young lady went out on many blind dates before she got married, and was quite glad that she had a CHP.  Once on a date she had to put her hand in her purse for her Glock.  Single people:  with that in mind, if you do the e-Harmony thing, beware that your date might actually believe in the 2nd Amendment, packing heat.
  Now I know what to get my daughter for Christmas this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a Muslim, nor do i make my drop-dead gorgeous, college senior daughter wear a chastity belt.  She is an adult and will make her own choices, and as the non-brainwashed person put it, she will live with the consequences of her actions.<br />
  Last night my wife and I had dinner with a young married couple who met on an electronic dating site.  The young lady went out on many blind dates before she got married, and was quite glad that she had a CHP.  Once on a date she had to put her hand in her purse for her Glock.  Single people:  with that in mind, if you do the e-Harmony thing, beware that your date might actually believe in the 2nd Amendment, packing heat.<br />
  Now I know what to get my daughter for Christmas this year.</p>
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