Courtship & Predestination

Posted by Thomas in Courtship Models, Early Marriage, Neo Courtship on 09 14th, 2009 | Comments

Courtship-Predestination

Does God predestine my future wife or do I need to find her? I don’t struggle with predestination when it comes to salvation because I know to share the Gospel either way. But courtship is different. I need to know if I should be looking or waiting.

Finding a Spouse

“He who finds a wife finds a good thing and gains favor from the Lord.”

-King Solomon

I have puzzled over this verse for years. Particularly on the word “find.” Is it a passive “find” like finding a coin on the sidewalk? Or is it an active “find” like finding a coin after searching my house?

I sat down with a Hebrew scholar and we looked up every use of Hebrew word “find” in the Old Testament. The result? The word is used in both ways about half the time each. After we looked up the last verse he closed his Hebrew Lexicon looked at me and said. “The results are inconclusive.”

Drat.

Courtship Calvinists

Some conservatives wait on God to predestine a mate for them. While the Bible talks about God predestining us for good works it makes no mention of God predestining our spouse. We know God is sovereign all knowing and that He cares about every detail of our lives, but is He a micro manager?

If God intended to do all actions himself why would he create us? Are we not His hands and feet? Are his people the tools of his hands or are we just passive observers of His sovereign power? If we are just to watch God do our work for us, it would make sense to stay home and wait for Mr. or Mrs. Right to knock on our door.

The Question

So, how active a part should we play in courtship?

Traditional western culture says men should do the work of identification and women should wait passively.
Eastern culture says that both should be passive and wait for their parents to decide.
Modern western culture tells both the man and woman to be active in pursuing each other.

In the Bible, Esther and Ruth both took an active role in winning the heart of “their man.” Isaac had a traditional arranged marriage. King David and King Jesus both took the active role in winning their wives. By Jesus’ wife I mean the church, His bride.

The results are, again, inconclusive. You could give Jesus’ example extra weight but it is also the most abstract since His bride is the Church.

Action is no Substitute for Faith
Faith is no Excuse for Idleness

The Bible makes it clear that we are to trust God in all things and to obey his voice. We are to walk in faith always but we must also act. Our actions prove our faith. If we do not act we demonstrate that we have no faith.

What do you think?

So how much interaction is healthy? How much is unhealthy? Waiting around doesn’t seem to be working, but should effectiveness be the criteria? Please let me know what you think. Don’t worry if you disagree. You can comment anonymously

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Courtship Challenge #2: Interaction How can you know what you are looking for...

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seancassidy

Hey everyone! I'm new to this group and I have not read any of the reviews yet (i intend to as soon as i have a moment to breath) But I have a few thoughts on this so let me know if you all agree. I don't believe that God predestines your wife for you as i know I could go out right now and marry a friend. However I do believe that some people will be a better match as a spouse than another. For example, someone who is passionate about overseas missions needs a girl that will support and preferably have the same passion. All throughout scripture, God has said that he will honor a righteous man. He also says that if we seek the Lord’s will of the Lord than he will give us the desires of our hearts. Marriage is great in Gods eye so a good spouse is a desire that I believe God is willing to give but not on our time AND if were willing to wait for the right one. What does waiting mean? It means not getting into relationships with just anyone, but more importantly, making your service to God more of a focus than finding a spouse. To often people make a spouse so great of a focus that they don’t end up serving God as much as they could in there single years. But that does not mean we cannot look and actively pursue a spouse. When Abraham was old he sent his servant to find his son a wife. That servant went out and Prayed for God to show him who the wife was. But still notice it all had to do with seeking Gods desire and not our own. (If you’re interested in reading this passage if scripture, which I recommend, it’s: Genesis 24) I am 21 and have never gotten into a relationship before as I am waiting for God to direct me to the right girl and I know he will bring the right one. To end, I believe that our active role is to seek God and then God will show use who is the best match, and then when we find that spouse we are to still keep God as first but we are to pursue that spouse to win him/her over as that’s the way God created use. (know what are the roles in the pursuit process is a whole other topic). Thanks for reading my thoughts and let me know what you think.

NDJodi

A simplified version of my own story is that God brought me & my husband together via a Christian dating service. Looking at the bigger picture, though, many changes had to take place in both of our lives to bring us to that dating service, including my move from another country and the circumstances that led to his being "single again".

I choose to believe in God's foreknowledge rather than predestination; He knows what we're going to do with the circumstances He places us in. It was my husband's decision to meet with me and after 10 years of marriage, I'm glad he did. However, if he'd decided not to meet me, I believe God would have sent another man my way.

For those still waiting, Jesus says to seek His kingdom first. This can be hard to do when you're praying for a spouse, but if we don't keep Him at the center of our lives when we're single, marriage alone is not going to change that.

Blessings,

Jodi

Kurt

God doesn't predestinate my wife? I'm thankful that he works all things according to the counsel of his will... even my future wife. Eph 1:11.

Just because God predestines something doesn't mean that our response is to passively watch him do it. I believe the Bible teaches that God predestines outcomes through our activity. He predestines us to good works, therefore go do them! He predestined my wife, therefore I go find her!

The solution is to pray, seeking God's guidance and relying on his strength while working as hard as we can. Phil 2:12-13

That's what it really means to be a "Courtship Calvinist".

A1R2S3

Great article, Thomas!!! I think 1 Corinthians 7:7 has a pretty good answer to your question. "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that." For some people their "manner" is to fervently seek for their spouse, while others are more content to wait and allow God to sorta drop the right one in their laps. Again, this is a very good article, Thomas.

Sarah, I agree. It would not be very appropriate to check and see if everyone has a "yellow stripe on their back", but it would sure be a lot easier!!! :-)

However, I must disagree with you concerning salvation and predestination. Come on, be honest, do you really go around singing "Jesus loves SOME of the children, SOME of the children in the world. Red and yellow, black and white, only SOME are precious in His sight. Jesus loves SOME of the children in the world."? I hope not! Since the Bible makes it very clear that "...God so loved the world..." (Jn. 3:16), that He died "...for the sins of the whole world..." (I Jn. 2:1,2), and that we as Christians are to "...go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature..." (Mk. 16:15), why in the world would you wish to believe that God determines our eternal destination in spite of our own personal will and desires?!? On the contrary, God in His Sovereignty has chosen to give mankind a choice, not only in terms of serving Him (Joshua 24:15), but also in terms of salvation (Matt. 23:37). This is why we read in Isaiah 55:6 to, "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, and call ye upon His name while He is near." "The LORD...is not willing that any should perish..." according to 2 Peter 3:9.

Otherwise, I liked your response...

Cynthia

I like the idea of a man pursuing a woman, and I have never liked the idea of women chasing men, but there is some give and take on both sides.

Some wise people in my life have quoted this Indian proverb, "If you don't go to the train track, you won't see any trains."

While we are in the process of seeking God for our lives and serving Him, we need to be around other single people who love God too... in fellowship together. If Ruth did not glean in the field, she would most likely not have met Boaz. If Esther did not go to the palace, she would not have met the King.

This may be a type of happy medium.

I know many people would say "Great job in stating the obvious." Regardless, I would like to say it for the "forest dwellers".

I also look at this from the woman's perspective. Woman need to be available. Generally, it is easier to be available when we are close by.

Daniel B

Thank you Cynthia. Too often the church acts like women are supposed to try and be unavailable, with the excuse that "It's the man's job to initiate, so he should get pursue you anyway"

Well, I definite agree men should get over themselves, stop worrying about rejection, put their identity in Christ's love and not whether a woman loves him or not, and pursue SOMEONE - but why you? If you act unavailable and another women makes it obvious that a relationship is important to her and she is ready for one....

Captivating puts this a lot better than I am putting it now....

Sarah Lanciault

"Does God predestine my future wife or do I need to find her? I don’t struggle with predestination when it comes to salvation because I know to share the Gospel either way. But courtship is different."

I have to disagree. I personally don't think courtship is any different than salvation in the light of predestination.

Using your thought process, I don't struggle with predestination when it comes to finding my future husband because I know to keep my eyes open, my prayers going, and my friendships growing either way.

Spurgeon once stated on the topic of predestination and salvation, “If God would have painted a yellow stripe on the backs of the elect I would go around lifting shirts. But since He didn’t I must preach `whosoever will’ and when `whosoever’ believes I know he is one of the elect.”

A purely "finding" perspective would be lifting up shirts to find yellow stripes or lack of yellow stripes (luckily God didn't mark our future spouse this way, as the method to finding the stripe would be highly inappropriate). : )

A purely "waiting" perspective would be to become a hermit and live in the woods so you won't be tempted by anything until God brings you your wife.

So I think there is a wonderful harmony between finding and waiting as is the usual with our Sovereign God. And just like salvation, I believe that I will know that I know that I know that my future spouse is the one that God has chosen specifically for me through supernatural peace and confirmation.

I think the verse that sums up every issue in life where we are commanded to actively wait on the Lord is, Prov. 16:9 "A man's heart plans His way, but the LORD directs His steps."

Tom Umstattd

Miss Lanciault,
Wow. What sound logic, extension of Thomas' thought process and turning it upside down on top of him. I don't know you, but you show spunk, young lady. I hope the best success finds you, or perhaps you will seek after success :-) in a "wonderful harmony" type way.

caiorodrigues

I couldn't agree more, Sarah. Good stuff. :)

Raz

Great article, Thomas!

As a bachelor who's in much the same situation as yourself I ask this question often.

My own belief is founded in a combination of biblical study and observation of successful and failed relationships. In the end I don't think I can absolutely substantiate them solely on scriptural grounds...but if that was possible then I think your article would have been in the form of instruction rather than question.

In the case of Adam and Eve, God made the man and woman specifically for each other. Throughout the Bible we see a multitude of examples where, while there is no declaration that God made them specifically for each other, that they were somehow meant to be, or at least that they compliment each other in ways that no other coupling could.

While I don't want to come across as a fan of hyper-predestination there seems to be, at least in many Biblical cases, a strong argument that God made two people best suited for each other.

As with the case of evangelism and predestination, which you noted earlier, a belief that God has made a mate which is best suited for you does not change the fact that you don't know who that individual is. Searching is still required. However, I don't know that this is a manhunt type search.

I think that the key is to seek to fulfill the first condition of Christian action, that all we do is first to the glory of God. From there, a great degree of faith is required that God is going to bring that individual into your life.

My favorite analogy of this is of a person standing in an art museum intently focused on the beauty of a painting (for the purpose of this analogy the painting is God's will) and at some point he becomes aware of his counterpart focused with equal intensity on the same object.

Basically, my current plan of action is to focus on improving myself and becoming a more perfect example of a Godly man. By using the unique talents that God has given me and the opportunities that He has opened me, as well as learning more about Him I hope that I'll be ready when I find whoever it is that I marry. Whether she is somebody that God made specially for Raz Shafer or whether she is just an awesome Christian woman I'm not 100% sure but all I can control is what I do in the mean time. What I am confident in is that if I am leading my life right and following God's will then I'll be blessed.

Grace

God really meant what He said, "But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." (Matt. 6:33). I agree with Kurt in that we certainly are not called to inactivity. But the activity to which we are called and that which should consume our focus and effort is our pursuit of God. Not a husband or wife. I know that God IS faithful; and if it is my/your desire to marry I think that is something He both knows and cares about deeply. After all He is the one who created our need/desire for it. That being said, it is our reasonable service to obey God in the whole hearted search for His kingdom whether we are satisfied (relationship wise) or not. :-)

Tom Umstattd

Grace,
Great thoughts. Col. 3 about setting our "minds or affections on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God" perhaps adds to seeking God's kingdom. "These things" in Matt. 6 specify food and clothing; but, I agree with you, are likely more than just these. Or how about the Psalm about delighting ourselves in the Lord, and He will give us the desires of our hearts. It could almost say something like delight yourself in the Lord, and He will put His desires in you, making His and our desire one.

Greg Meece

From a practical standpoint, I think you got it right. We are not responsible for the sovereign will of God, only his revealed will. We study & meditate on His word, ask for wisdom and seek counsel (hopefully of our parents and elders). We can ask God to bring the right person into our lives.

As for me, I am convinced (after 27 years of marriage) that I definitely married the right person. I am fond of saying to her, "Sweetie - you aren't perfect, but you're perfect for me!"

Also, FWIW (For What It's Worth) - those of us Reformed folk acknowledge that while regeneration may be monergistic (that is, God sovereignly enlivens us by His grace), sanctification and discipleship are synergistic (that is, a cooperation of the Spirit and our will). So, it would follow that we may thwart what might be God's best for us if we are stubborn and disobedient.

Caleb P. Hobart

For the Esther and Ruth whom read this blog. I live in Austin and would love to grab a cup of coffee to discuss the article-with or without friends. I will respect your boundaries.

Does that answer where I stand? I am not sure. Ha!

Well done Thomas!

David

God has already revealed plenty about courtship and His soverignty, in my Book. From the perspective He has given me so far, it's all about a man's heart. For things like this, we might sometimes find ourselves straining at a gnat (and maybe even swallowing a camel), That's what we do when we don't want Him to rule over us. Especially whenever we feel frustrated about something not going our way in this life, I think all believers agree it best under heaven to "Be still, and know that I am God: ..." Ps 46:10a. This is not passive. Try it and see.

Jennifer

While I agree that "Esther and Ruth both took an active role in winning the heart of their man.", I think you gloss over an important point- the courage of conviction that both Esther and Ruth possessed in regards to their romantic pursuits preexisted their actions.

Although Esther and Ruth's situations are distinctly different, neither seemed uncertain as to whether or not these we the men for them. It is this uncertainty which is a result of the lack of male pursuit which seems to exist in the early stages of most relationships today. Which leads to what I think is the more interesting question- what must exist prior to the man pursuing the woman?

Vanessa

To wait or not to wait... I can think of a handful of verses that speak of waiting and letting the Lord take care of things, yet, I can also think of some bible passages, like Ruth and Esther, where the lady wasn't just waiting and sitting at home with her bible in her lap. I guess my theology is be the person you'd want to marry, so God can bring you to the person you are to marry.

I heard an audio sermon where the preacher compared it to a triangle, with man on the bottom left, woman on the bottom right and God on top. As Man and Woman grew closer to God, they came to each other. I think being involved in ministry is a big part, but I don't think that just because you are involved in ministry that God will bring you to your future spouse, if your heart is right, and you are really concerned about souls, then I have faith that God will take care of the details.

Tim Stewart

I can see this website as provoking some healthy and fruitful discussion. Thanks, Thomas, for pouring energy and content into this.

I think the principle of male leadership in marriage is thoroughly Biblical. And so if a husband is to lead in marriage, then it seems reasonable for him to be demonstrating his leadership capabilities during the courtship process as well. That would help the woman to see whether the interested fellow has leadership qualities and so be open to his advances.

I see the man's courtship leadership as being (not a comprehensive list): only pursuing a godly woman who is mature and ready for marriage--selecting a woman who would be equally yoked with him; initiating communication with the woman; recognizing, respecting, and guarding emotional/spiritual/physical boundaries; initiating DTRs when needed; arranging for accountability and oversight during the courtship; continually praying for God's guidance and blessing, for himself and the woman; being grounded mentally and spiritually in what the Bible says about the marriage relationship; being continually sensitive and responsive to the woman's issues and needs; and bearing continually in mind what the real goal of the courtship is.

It's a lot of work! Woman have responsibilities too, of course. Some of them: holding to a "minimum standard" of godliness and maturity for the male suitor--waiting for a man who would be equally yoked with her; expecting the man to live up to the full measure of leadership and care required of a suitor (and perhaps eventually a husband); being actively and evidently receptive to his appropriate advances if she is interested; letting him know she is not interested if she isn't; initiating DTRs when needed; arranging for accountability and oversight during the courtship; continually praying for God's guidance and blessing, for herself and the man; being grounded mentally and spiritually in what the Bible says about the marriage relationship; bearing continually in mind the real goal of courtship.

The process of finding a wife is a careful, serious, God-blessed activity! Wether you call it courtship or not, and whatever model or format you follow, the process of a man and women becoming husband and wife is a happy, edifying, memorable, Biblical undertaking, and I think it makes the heart of God glad when men and women participate in it in an enthusiastic, Biblical, holy way.

My $0.02!

Tim Stewart,
Austin, TX

Tim Stewart

If anybody has more ideas for responsibilities that the man and woman each have, especially if you think of ones that one person would have more of than the other, please hit reply and add yours to the list. Especially if you can think of responsibilities that are not strictly equal between the man and woman.
--Tim

Kay

"Seek Yea First The Kingdom Of God And All These Things Shall Be Added Unto You"
Do Not Be Deceived, God Knows All And Has Seen All Your Needs And Hearts Desires. But Our Primary Role As God's Children Is To Seek After Things Of His Kingdom And His Will. In Doing So, We Reciprocatively Open Doors That Meet Our Own Desires. Which Might Includes A Wife And A Lot More Other Things!

DB

Sometimes God says "You must do X, that is what my will is, anything else is against my will." Sometimes he says "What's on your heart? I gave you good desires, you may follow them in a variety of good ways."

To answer that God can not or will not ever say something like this second comment with regards to our choice of relationships presumes a lot about God, and means that after making a choice we can know for sure what would have happened if we had chosen differently.

God never says it's wrong to seek anything that isn't directly him. For example, we are not to worry about clothes or food, and if we seek first his kingdom than we'll end up with clothes and food too, but we still have some seeking to do. The food doesn't just supernaturally teleport itself into our house and levitate itself into our mouths.

Prayer is having a conversation with God. Like any good relationship, just talking about what's going on your life and what's on your mind builds closeness. So a healthy prayer life likely includes sharing with God any romantic interests you may have. It's okay to say "God I don't know if a relationship with him/her is your will or not, and I don't know if I have a choice or not, but if I do, and there's any way to fit this relationship into your will, please do so." It's easy to trip over ourselves inserting "but of course, your will be done" after mentioning the desires of our heart so often that we forget it's okay to just ask a question to a God who loves to listen and loves to answer and loves to gives good gifts.

Seek first the Kingdom of God, but you still have to lift the fork to your mouth.

ggmmolly

To paraphrase Matt Chandler, the person that I will marry will be "just a boy" (not in the "he's not a man" sense, but in the "he's just a male" sense). I could marry any number of Godly men and be really happy. There's a stigma in our society that says that there's only "one" person out there for each other person. That we could marry the "wrong person". This is why so many get divorced. Here's what I'm trying to say: Is there "one" person out there for me? No. But there IS only ONE person that I will marry, and God has predestined it that I marry this person (because, in His eyes, He sees past, present and future... it's already happened! No "open theology" here).

So, application: For me, I have found that it is MY job as a woman to simply seek the Lord and fall in love with Him first and foremost. I am to wait - but this waiting is not passive. It is ACTIVE, trusting that the Lord will provide in His timing. For men, they are to do the same, trusting that at the right time the Lord will provide as well - only, they are to be the pursuers.

This may be one of those things that goes "without saying"... but I think that it is worth saying anyway. Good discussion!

Joshua

I appreciate the good material found on this website. But I did want to bring up something that I can see has been brought up below (by Kurt).

Even if people are predestined to faith, there is still the need for the gospel to be preached; see Romans 10:13-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom...). Why? Because if it has been predestined that they will believe, then it has been predestined that someone will preach the word to them.

The same goes for marriage. Yes, God has determined our spouse - but we still have to find her and pursue her.

Joshua

Sorry for the double post. The link below does not work.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom...

Courtship & Predestination

Finding a Spouse

Courtship Calvinists

The Question

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