Comments on: Courtship & Predestination http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/ making courtship work in the real world Tue, 24 Jan 2012 05:57:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Floresx2005 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-197 Floresx2005 Sat, 30 Apr 2011 08:03:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-197 Come on, That song " Jesus loves the little children" using that as a theological argument is weak. That song is not even holy spirit inspired. Do it with scripture in the correct context. Let's back to scripture. Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Will this be your response to God? Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” Romans 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” God is the one who ordains all things. He is the sovereign LORD and King of Kings. He does not make his decision based on sinful man desires or choices. God is the one who grants repentance. Acts 11:17 "If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has GRANTED to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." 2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God MAY GRANT them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. Those who God has Ordain Believe. Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. The results of being appointed to Eternal life was belief. It's not because they believed that they were appointed to eternal life. But the other way around. Only God saves. He does not need mans cooperation. Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. If you read this chain its all Gods work and God does not fail. Ezekiel 36:26-27 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. I love how you said and I quote you " Why in the world would you wish to believe in that God determines our eternal destination in spite our will and desire?" Here is your answer Romans 9 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLS, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Joshua 24:15 Does not give evidence of men being able to choose saving Faith. If you know anything about ethnic Israel they said one thing but really desired to serve false gods that's like all humanity. Scripture just shows us what humanity given the opportunity to choose, what decision we would make, and it would be choose to serve false gods. That's why God has always reserved for himself a remanent. Jeremiah 50:20 In those days and in that time,” says the Lord, “The iniquity of Israel shall be sought, but there shall be none; And the sins of Judah, but they shall not be found; For I will pardon those whom I preserve. 1 King 19:18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” Romans 11:4-6 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the ELECTION of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. PS: And not Israel is Israel. Every believer is Israel. Come on, That song ” Jesus loves the little children” using that as a theological argument is weak. That song is not even holy spirit inspired. Do it with scripture in the correct context. Let’s back to scripture.
Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Will this be your response to God?
Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”
Romans 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”
God is the one who ordains all things. He is the sovereign LORD and King of Kings. He does not make his decision based on sinful man desires or choices.
God is the one who grants repentance.

Acts 11:17 “If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has GRANTED to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”

2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God MAY GRANT them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Those who God has Ordain Believe.
Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The results of being appointed to Eternal life was belief. It’s not because they believed that they were appointed to eternal life. But the other way around.
Only God saves. He does not need mans cooperation.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
If you read this chain its all Gods work and God does not fail.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
I love how you said and I quote you ” Why in the world would you wish to believe in that God determines our eternal destination in spite our will and desire?” Here is your answer Romans 9 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
So then it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLS, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Joshua 24:15 Does not give evidence of men being able to choose saving Faith. If you know anything about ethnic Israel they said one thing but really desired to serve false gods that’s like all humanity. Scripture just shows us what humanity given the opportunity to choose, what decision we would make, and it would be choose to serve false gods. That’s why God has always reserved for himself a remanent.
Jeremiah 50:20 In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,
“The iniquity of Israel shall be sought, but there shall be none;
And the sins of Judah, but they shall not be found;
For I will pardon those whom I preserve.
1 King 19:18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”
Romans 11:4-6 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the ELECTION of grace.
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

PS: And not Israel is Israel. Every believer is Israel.

]]> By: Floresx2005 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-196 Floresx2005 Sat, 30 Apr 2011 07:19:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-196 God determines our destination by his Will not ours. Where do we get this? From scripture. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of man, but of God. John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” Regeneration proceeds Faith John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Regeneration is by Gods Will not mans desire. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Man would never choose God given an opportunity. Scripture is clear on that. Romans 8:9-10 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. Given the choice as you put it NO ONE WOULD BE SAVED. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Grace and Faith are a gift of God towards his Elect. And without faith you cannot please God. Scripture is clear. God determines our destination by his Will not ours. Where do we get this? From scripture. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of man, but of God.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Regeneration proceeds Faith
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Regeneration is by Gods Will not mans desire.
John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Man would never choose God given an opportunity. Scripture is clear on that.
Romans 8:9-10 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
Given the choice as you put it NO ONE WOULD BE SAVED.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Grace and Faith are a gift of God towards his Elect. And without faith you cannot please God. Scripture is clear.

]]> By: Floresx2005 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-195 Floresx2005 Sat, 30 Apr 2011 04:35:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-195 John 3:16 Only proves that God send his son " For Everyone believing" not all men believe. Read all John 3 not just verse 16. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned "ALREADY" because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 2 Peter3:9 Peter is writing to believers about believers not all humanity. To understand this verse in your way you must be an open theist and believe God does not know all. If God already knows that a man will be born and never accept God and perish. God still hopes that this same man will surprise God and accept him. I don't believe that's the Creator of all. Context is very important. Jesus said he gives his life for the sheep. Not the sheep and goats. John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. Jesus does not say if you choose to believe you can be my sheep. God does love all humanity but not equally. Prime example Jesus revealed himself to saint Paul but not to Pilot or Pharoah. If you read all Romans 9 you get how God really works. He owes no man anything. Romans 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 1 John 2:1-2 is about the believers and those in the world that will come to believe. Jews and Gentiles. Unless you embrace universalism that he is the propitiation for all men and all will be saved and none will perish. You contradict scripture. John 3:16 Only proves that God send his son ” For Everyone believing” not all men believe. Read all John 3 not just verse 16. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned “ALREADY” because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of
God.
2 Peter3:9 Peter is writing to believers about believers not all humanity. To understand this verse in your way you must be an open theist and believe God does not know all. If God already knows that a man will be born and never accept God and perish. God still hopes that this same man will surprise God and accept him. I don’t believe that’s the Creator of all. Context is very important. Jesus said he gives his life for the sheep. Not the sheep and goats. John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. Jesus does not say if you choose to believe you can be my sheep. God does love all humanity but not equally. Prime example Jesus revealed himself to saint Paul but not to Pilot or Pharoah. If you read all Romans 9 you get how God really works. He owes no man anything. Romans 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
1 John 2:1-2 is about the believers and those in the world that will come to believe. Jews and Gentiles. Unless you embrace universalism that he is the propitiation for all men and all will be saved and none will perish. You contradict scripture.

]]> By: Floresx2005 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-194 Floresx2005 Sat, 30 Apr 2011 04:17:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-194 Foreknowledge in the biblical sense doesn't mean God goes to the future to see what will a person does. If that was the case God really doesn't know all and he learns from man. Foreknowledge means he chose to enter into relationship. I'm not an open theist. I believe God knows all because he ordains all and because scripture describes God in such way. We cannot ignore predestination when scripture is clear that God predestines. Foreknowledge in the biblical sense doesn’t mean God goes to the future to see what will a person does. If that was the case God really doesn’t know all and he learns from man. Foreknowledge means he chose to enter into relationship. I’m not an open theist. I believe God knows all because he ordains all and because scripture describes God in such way. We cannot ignore predestination when scripture is clear that God predestines.

]]> By: No_email http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-192 No_email Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:40:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-192 It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians take the hyperspiritual approach to mate selection. It is not practical to assume that God has one predetermined individual for you. It is very dangerous as well. Heres why: 1) It is amazing how many go from the "God told me they are the one" concept to the "I must have missed it" concept just a few months or years after they walk down the aisle. Ask married couples and most all will say they married the one. Ask the divorced and they will say that they thought they were when they got married. It is a biased question either way. Personal choice incorporates personal responsibility after we make those choices. If you go with "the one" concept you will conclude that you "missed God" if and when things get tough, thereby assuming that "the one" must still be out there. The next step is divorce. If you do embrace "the one" concept then you need to also embrace that the leading of the Lord should come through a discovery process, that is only complete through much TIME. Until there are neutral emotions in the relationship, you have not even started down that road. Truly, two people that are "in love" could not hear God through a loudspeaker. The "Leading of the Lord" is not safe when emotions are elevated. EVER! 2) It is also dangerous in that once a couple plays the "God said" card, they will not be genuinely open to anything that does not validate the relationship. In Pre-Marital counseling once they go down that road it will be almost impossible to get them to explore any potential warning signs of incompatibility. 3) It is the biggest decision of ones life! We must be VERY careful how we advise people in these areas (especially young people). You are not responsible for their choice. They are. The longer they can keep a question mark over the relationship the more knowledge they will receive about the potential partner. Very much needs to be taught in the Church today on this subject. Go buy the book "The One" by Ben Young. It covers this subject in detail. It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians take the hyperspiritual approach to mate selection. It is not practical to assume that God has one predetermined individual for you. It is very dangerous as well.
Heres why:
1) It is amazing how many go from the “God told me they are the one” concept to the “I must have missed it” concept just a few months or years after they walk down the aisle. Ask married couples and most all will say they married the one. Ask the divorced and they will say that they thought they were when they got married. It is a biased question either way. Personal choice incorporates personal responsibility after we make those choices. If you go with “the one” concept you will conclude that you “missed God” if and when things get tough, thereby assuming that “the one” must still be out there. The next step is divorce.
If you do embrace “the one” concept then you need to also embrace that the leading of the Lord should come through a discovery process, that is only complete through much TIME. Until there are neutral emotions in the relationship, you have not even started down that road. Truly, two people that are “in love” could not hear God through a loudspeaker. The “Leading of the Lord” is not safe when emotions are elevated. EVER!
2) It is also dangerous in that once a couple plays the “God said” card, they will not be genuinely open to anything that does not validate the relationship. In Pre-Marital counseling once they go down that road it will be almost impossible to get them to explore any potential warning signs of incompatibility.
3) It is the biggest decision of ones life! We must be VERY careful how we advise people in these areas (especially young people). You are not responsible for their choice. They are. The longer they can keep a question mark over the relationship the more knowledge they will receive about the potential partner.

Very much needs to be taught in the Church today on this subject.
Go buy the book “The One” by Ben Young. It covers this subject in detail.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-187 Anonymous Wed, 23 Feb 2011 00:34:00 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-187 Meet other Christian singles looking for friendship and love and finding it! Connect with others at your own speed and in a variety of ways. Christian dating websites are devoted to helping Christians, from diverse demographic backgrounds and geographical locations, find friendship and romance. Meet other Christian singles looking for friendship and love and finding it! Connect with others at your own speed and in a variety of ways. Christian dating websites are devoted to helping Christians, from diverse demographic backgrounds and geographical locations, find friendship and romance.

]]> By: Erin Coates http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-180 Erin Coates Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:45:50 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-180 So how much interaction is healthy? Hmmm...you mentioned that Esther and Ruth won the hearts of their men. Frankly, I don't see that in scripture. Ruth won her man's respect and Esther won the best looking and most sexy contest (no crassness intended). I think that we really have a backwards mindset on this. We live in a culture that makes marriage about 2 people when it is really a lot larger than that. As Christians, we should be influencing the culture, not the other way around. The biblical model was for arranged marriage and that meant that the parents have a LOT of say. There is nothing wrong with interaction together as young people but I think that parental involvement before the interaction gets too serious is healthy. Looking is not a problem, striking up a friendship is not a problem but initiating courtship or marriage outside of authourity is a problem. <br><br>How much is unhealthy? Well, I believe that prolonged interaction with the opposite gender is not bad in and of itself depending on the circumstances. I am grateful for the elderly men in my life and appreciate spending time listening to them. However, spending too much time with young men can lead to emotional attachment and so I limit my time in one-on-one conversation with them. <br><br> Waiting around doesn’t seem to be working, but should effectiveness be the criteria? Waiting all depends on how you wait. We are told to be content in every situation of our life but I fully understand the hardship of being single (I am still single at the time of this comment). I think that the effectiveness of our walk with God needs to be the first priority. Are we trusting in Him? Are we being obedient? Are we active in serving Him? I can't count how many times young women/men have met their spouse while serving God on a missions team or serving in church together. There is nothing wrong with wondering if so and so might be a future spouse but you better be sure that your first motive is friendship and you talk to your parents/spiritual authourity figure about it first. :) So how much interaction is healthy? Hmmm…you mentioned that Esther and Ruth won the hearts of their men. Frankly, I don't see that in scripture. Ruth won her man's respect and Esther won the best looking and most sexy contest (no crassness intended). I think that we really have a backwards mindset on this. We live in a culture that makes marriage about 2 people when it is really a lot larger than that. As Christians, we should be influencing the culture, not the other way around. The biblical model was for arranged marriage and that meant that the parents have a LOT of say. There is nothing wrong with interaction together as young people but I think that parental involvement before the interaction gets too serious is healthy. Looking is not a problem, striking up a friendship is not a problem but initiating courtship or marriage outside of authourity is a problem.

How much is unhealthy? Well, I believe that prolonged interaction with the opposite gender is not bad in and of itself depending on the circumstances. I am grateful for the elderly men in my life and appreciate spending time listening to them. However, spending too much time with young men can lead to emotional attachment and so I limit my time in one-on-one conversation with them.

Waiting around doesn’t seem to be working, but should effectiveness be the criteria? Waiting all depends on how you wait. We are told to be content in every situation of our life but I fully understand the hardship of being single (I am still single at the time of this comment). I think that the effectiveness of our walk with God needs to be the first priority. Are we trusting in Him? Are we being obedient? Are we active in serving Him? I can't count how many times young women/men have met their spouse while serving God on a missions team or serving in church together. There is nothing wrong with wondering if so and so might be a future spouse but you better be sure that your first motive is friendship and you talk to your parents/spiritual authourity figure about it first. :)

]]> By: Daniel B http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-175 Daniel B Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:34:40 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-175 I just thought of another way to explain about the need to be "available" (although I think even that isn't quite going far enough, but it'll do for now). <br> <br>For some reason, many Christian women like to put relationships in middle ages terms. I don't understand it, but there's nothing wrong with it, so I'll run with it. Usually she is a princess waiting for her knight to ride up and declare his undying love for her. Why a knight would want to gallop in out of nowhere and offer undying love to someone who is just sitting around in a castle is usually never explained. Plus, that's not what knights were made for anyway. If you really want to find the knight God has for you, you should be out on the battlefield, not hiding in a castle. I just thought of another way to explain about the need to be “available” (although I think even that isn't quite going far enough, but it'll do for now).

For some reason, many Christian women like to put relationships in middle ages terms. I don't understand it, but there's nothing wrong with it, so I'll run with it. Usually she is a princess waiting for her knight to ride up and declare his undying love for her. Why a knight would want to gallop in out of nowhere and offer undying love to someone who is just sitting around in a castle is usually never explained. Plus, that's not what knights were made for anyway. If you really want to find the knight God has for you, you should be out on the battlefield, not hiding in a castle.

]]> By: DB http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-161 DB Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:26:46 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-161 Ruth would not have been bound to Boaz had she not given him the impetus to redeem the ancestral land of his relative (which he clearly did b/c it was the way Ruth, not because of his relative's inheritance). Ruth would not have been bound to Boaz had she not given him the impetus to redeem the ancestral land of his relative (which he clearly did b/c it was the way Ruth, not because of his relative's inheritance).

]]> By: Vaughn Ohlman http://www.practicalcourtship.com/2009/courtship-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-158 Vaughn Ohlman Sun, 04 Jul 2010 07:12:10 +0000 http://www.practicalcourtship.com/?p=106#comment-158 >>God has already revealed plenty about courtship and His soverignty, in my Book.<br><br>One hopes you mean 'in His book' ;) >>God has already revealed plenty about courtship and His soverignty, in my Book.

One hopes you mean 'in His book' ;)

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